Universities have centuries-old brands and some of the most loyal supporters anywhere, but their donation forms don’t always show it. For our most recent 4Site Salon, Bryan and Fernando sat down with Mike Bird of Engaging Networks and Andreea Teban of Berea College to talk about what higher education fundraisers can do about it. And they don’t need to look far. Nearly every experience problem higher ed faces online has already been worked out by enterprise nonprofits that run large digital programs.
Andreea gave us the perspective of an insider. Priorities come down from committees, every department wants its field on the form, and the digital team is small. The answer is data. She uses reporting to show colleagues which designations donors actually choose (most give to the annual fund or scholarships), and she’s added heatmaps through Microsoft Clarity so stakeholders can see how donors really use the page. For a closer look at how Berea does it, read this Berea College case study.
Mike then showed us what’s possible at scale. The University of Ottawa’s giving page handles roughly 1,500 funds with a search and a cart, while still steering most donors toward a few priority funds. Simon Fraser University pairs a fund search with large, mobile-friendly buttons and a clear employer match callout.
From the build side, Fernando made the case for single-step forms that let browser autofill do its job: every tap you remove on mobile lifts conversions. Bryan walked through an Amnesty International donation page 4Site built, where every button says when a gift is recurring and the photography points the eye toward the form. He also urged teams to treat the thank-you page as a celebration rather than a receipt, since the last moment of a gift shapes how donors remember it.
The standout example was PETA’s symbolic gift cart that 4Site built, that swaps a photo of a sad dog for a happy one after a gift is selected. That two-hour change lifted conversions by double digits in PETA’s testing.
The takeaway: higher ed doesn’t have to invent any of this. Start with your form data, cut the fields nobody uses, and rethink what happens after the gift.
Episode Transcript
Bryan Casler
Alright. Well, thanks everybody, uh, who has joined, um, in chat and on video. You’re welcome to, to jump on video anytime. And we’re going to have a lively discussion. We’ll have some time for, for Q&A. Um, but we, uh, if you were with us last week, we used Zoom meetings, um, or maybe I’m getting that wrong. Anyway, it was like the formal webinar one, which added a ton of restrictions that we didn’t like. Um, we like the more informal style, just a large group Zoom call. Um, but we’ll have a little bit of structure to today’s call. I’m going to do a quick round of introductions and then we’ll start moving through, um, some topics of conversation. So, without further ado, uh, thank you guys for joining Foresight’s salon. This week’s is going to be on, uh, the challenge, um, that we see in the higher ed space around their donation forms, um, and the technologies that services them. Um, I’m really excited to introduce the team here. Um, we have a few lovely guests, and in no specific order, um, Mike Bird is joining us from Engaging Networks. Uh, Mike has a history of working with higher ed institutions, um, around their online giving, and, uh, is going to be taking us through the good, the bad, the ugly, and, uh, some example donation forms that we’re gonna, we’re gonna all reflect on. Andreea Teban is joining us from Berea College. And, uh, correct me if I’m wrong, I didn’t, I didn’t realize this, but does Berea not charge tuition? Is that correct?
Andreea Teban
Yes, and we actually don’t charge tuition, housing fees, so it is completely, fully funded scholarship degree. Yeah.
Bryan Casler
So fundraising is very important in a way that maybe other organizations can’t even appreciate.
Andreea Teban
Yeah.
Bryan Casler
Um, so I’m excited for you to join us and just lend that very unique perspective. I’m joined by my colleague Fernando in the back room here. We made sure we weren’t going to talk over each other. Fernando is our director of development and AI solutions with more than a decade working with fundraising technology and helping optimize for online giving. Fernando doesn’t have a ton of experience in the higher ed space, so we’re also using him both as a tech expert, but somebody with maybe an outside perspective that can lend some unique, unique talking points as we go through everything today. And then I’m Bryan Casler, VP of Digital and AI Strategy at 4Site. Uh, I sit at the intersection of, um, hopes and dreams of clients and translating those into actionable plans. So, um, I’ve never seen a donation form I didn’t have an opinion about, uh, but I really, really care about that, that user experience. It is about driving, um, driving dollars in the door and, and serving the mission at the end of the day. Otherwise, it’s just technology for technology’s sake. So, Mike, we’re gonna, we’re gonna start out with you. Um, I would love to maybe frame, um, for folks on the call, the, the challenges that we are seeing in this space. And, uh, we can kind of build on that idea. And, and even though we have an agenda, uh, last week, Fernando and I had everything stilt out and we got about halfway through and found something that was really meaty and we kind of just stuck with it. It’s going to be the same this week. We’ll kind of, like, sneak our way through some topics that we’ve prepared, but if something, uh, meaty, uh, appears in front of us, I think we can sit and spend a few good minutes chatting about it.
Mike Bird
Yeah. Yeah, definitely, folks who are joining, feel free to weigh in and help us steer. Otherwise, we have a good map. But, um, thanks everyone for joining. I spent the first 10 years of my career in the education space, K-12 and higher ed. I coached, uh, three junior college institute, uh, football programs and their institutions. Uh, it’s a random array of professional experiences and somehow has led me over to what I do today. Uh, and Engaging Networks, just as a little bit of backstory, is, uh, an integrated fundraising platform that really got its start in North America in the sort of larger nonprofit space. And over the last few years, we’ve started to expand pretty rapidly into hospital foundations, and we have organically acquired, uh, seven higher ed clients over the years, and are now starting to pay a lot more attention to that, uh, for a few different reasons that we’ll get into, but, um, it occurred to me the other day, just sort of a random thought that kind of happened in the shower almost, that, like, all of the challenges, um, from an experience standpoint that higher ed might face when it comes to engaging most of their supporters who are alums of their schools, um, those challenges have been largely addressed with a lot of creativity and experimentation from the nonprofit sector and those groups that are more used to building large mass online movements. And so that’s kind of the inspiration. Um, we’re gonna, I’m gonna poke fun a little bit at, uh, I asked AI to make me a typical higher ed donation form. And I’ll just show this really quickly. If you know me, I have a sense of humor. I try not to take this too seriously. I thought this was actually not bad, right? Metropolitan University, fictitious. We’re not going to tear up anyone here too much. Um, this looks clean and easy enough to use. But honestly, a lot of the donation forms I come across sometimes in higher ed kind of look more like this, which, um, sort of like an eight and a half by eleven form put onto a website. And I get it. Uh, the biggest difference between a lot of higher ed brands, I’ll just talk about it from a marketing perspective for a moment, and, uh, medium to large nonprofits is the storied tradition that goes into higher ed. And Andreea can speak probably even better on this than I can. My alma mater here in Montreal is actually older than my country. Uh, this is not uncommon. Or to have an institution that is basically as old as the rest of, uh, the society that got built up around it. Uh, so, that, in the sense that a brand can take years, decades, centuries to build, to risk ruining that brand in a couple of days with a webpage that looks really off the message, um, can scare a lot of people, I think, into taking chances. Andreea, is there anything that you would add, being someone who’s on the front lines of this? Because we could also talk a little bit about the nature of how higher ed gets to some of its decisions around technology in general, but just wanted to see if you wanted to add anything on that first point.
Andreea Teban
Yeah, I mean, you know, Berea was founded in 1855, so talk about, you know, pre–Civil War. Um, so, yeah, I’m also thinking, and you said that you might touch base on this, but just how, um, siloed higher education institutions can be. Um, I think a lot of time there is just a disconnect in priorities. Yeah, I’m also thinking, and you said that you might touch base on this, but just how, um, siloed higher education institutions can be. Um, I think a lot of time there is just a disconnect in priorities. Um, sometimes, you know, um, or I would say most of the times, I’m assuming other higher ed institutions have something like an administrative committee or a board of, you know, vice presidents who kind of, um, determine Sometimes, you know, um, or I would say most of the times, I’m assuming other higher ed institutions have something like an administrative committee or a board of, you know, vice presidents who kind of, um, determine strategic priorities, um, and sometimes those can feel competing for staff, uh, that are under. So then, yeah, you’re kind of… You know, you’re, you’re, uh, left, I guess, with this, like, trickle-down information about what should go on our websites or, um, what, you know, what we want to make happen maybe sometimes overnight, and, um, you’re, you’re dealing with, I would say, even capacity or knowledge or skill, um, lack, whereas, you know, nonprofits have an entire department that’s just specific for digital fundraising and have the capacity to put the time and effort into that. So I think you’re, you’re pretty much right on the money there.
Mike Bird
Yeah. And, um, again, the, the point of this is to provoke a little bit, but hopefully to inspire a lot. That’s really the, the aim of this. Um, I want to show, maybe just for folks who aren’t familiar as much with, with Berea, um, their donation form today looks like this. And here we actually see a student on campus. Uh, ultimately your case for support, if you’re, if you’re donating, you’re actually, like, seeing it right here. Um, the buttons that are servicing one-time and monthly gifts with the different ask arrays are branded to Berea’s primary color. You have a simple, uh, single designation selector, which for a lot of smaller private schools is really appropriate. And then we can talk about, like, what happens in a large school where there might be hundreds to thousands of funds that actually need to be addressed. Um, that’s a different technical challenge. Uh, you’re handling tribute giving, you’re handling, uh, taking, uh, a matching gift from an employer, right? So, Engaging Networks, uh, is part of Double the Donations’ employer match program and is giving me information that if I gave over $50, um, that Engaging Networks would match that gift. The overall just feel of this next to even, like, an established brand, and we’re going to slightly pick a little bit on, um, you know, a school that most people don’t pick on when it comes to their, their pages. Uh, Harvard has something that’s very functional, um, but I don’t know if I feel the connection to the school that I might have gone to in the same way that I get from this page. We’re going to show some other Hired examples, but also some ideas that come from nonprofits that have hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions of supporters on their email lists and try and leave folks with some ideas that even if you might not be able to implement all of those things, um, they at least give you ideas for what could be down the road. Um, Andrew, what did I miss there when you think about the Berea donation experience and then maybe talking a little bit about, like, what does that lead into? Like, let’s say I make a gift, what might happen on the other side of that?
Andreea Teban
Yeah, so usually, obviously, you will get a confirmation page and then you’ll also get an autoresponder. Um, and then it kind of depends then, you know, we have determined just marketing, uh, automation journeys that kind of, um, depend on where you are, uh, within the giving criteria. So obviously a new donor would start receiving a new donor welcome series. And then, um, alumni would probably, um, start getting automated emails from our alumni office and so on. So it’s kind of, um, and then we don’t have, unfortunately, like an integration between Engaging Networks and our CRM, but all of that data is kind of done by us. Uh, but yeah, we, um, think very thoroughly about our donors, whether they’re alums or what we call friends or folks who are really not affiliated with Berea at all, uh, in, you know, how they receive our communications. And we try to be, uh, very strategic as a school about it. Uh, we are very cognizant of the fact that when, uh, they see Berea somewhere, they don’t know that it’s the advancement department, the development department versus the alumni department versus. Maybe, I don’t know, even, like, the digital research department. Um, so, we try to be very strategic in how we think about that. But firsthand, yeah, when somebody makes a gift, they’re gonna be, have this confirmation and an acknowledgement of their gift.
Mike Bird
Yeah, uh, Fernando or Bryan, I don’t know if you want to weigh in, but you’ve worked with some organizations that have built some really compelling experiences that follow kind of right after the donation page itself. Is there anything you’d want to add as it relates to just things that you’ve seen that really stand out? So I, I go through a higher converting form and what happens potentially after that, that’s like equally enriching potentially.
Fernando Santos
Can I, can I quickly ask a question before we go to the post-donation experience? Uh, when I was, uh, as Bryan mentioned, um, I have experience on fundraising and, uh, the technology behind it. And I, I, I really, I’m really, I’m really passionate about what moves, uh, the needle on the donation experience. Uh, and when we are talking about a donation page, we are always assuming that your end goal is to raise, uh, money. It is to, you want to remove all the friction, uh, to make the donation, uh, process, uh, as easy as you can. And I noticed something, uh, that the both donation forms generated by Mike created. And also we can see on the Berea donation form, which is, for example, uh, the most recent friction removal that we can mention on the donation experience was the, the creation of the digital wallets. So we have Apple Pay, we have, uh, Google Pay, uh, things that will make the process faster, right? And if you see both donations created by AI from Mike, uh, it treats the form as the only payment type available is card. Uh, so, uh, as someone from outside, it makes me think that, uh, either there’s, like, some, uh, problem adding, uh, donation, um, adding digital wallets that I don’t know about, or maybe a higher ad as a whole takes a little longer to adapt to what’s new?
Bryan Casler
I, I feel like I can answer a little bit of that, which is, um, a challenge we see in the nonprofit space, which is, I feel like higher ed suffers from too many cooks in the kitchen in that, um, man, you go to these donation pages and it’s like, how many people are like, it has to have this. And then someone else is like, it has to have this. And basically that in the end ends up limiting the number of tools out there that you can use, which is a whole other conversation of like, why are these donation pages often dated? And it’s like, your, your software options are very limited because it’s like, you have to use this obscure payment processor. It has to integrate with random software that no one’s ever heard of. And then it’s like, okay, the donation fundraising software that you are able to get, it has a captive audience. Like, they’re not improving. It’s a non-competitive market. And so it is very, um, it’s very old school. Actually, Mike, I think that second version you brought up isn’t, isn’t far from the truth. Um, I, you said you didn’t want to, like, Dunk on anybody. I’ll, I’ll dunk on someone. Um, I, I went to, uh, the Rochester Institute of Technology in Rochester, New York. So, I’m not going to pull up their donation page, but I will pull up the University of Rochester’s donation page. And, like, I come here, and I’m just like, oh, okay, so there’s one, two, three, four, five steps in this process. Um, okay, uh, I have to type in my amount. Um, okay, I want to schedule a payment. Okay, well, all right. This is getting confusing. How many payments do I want? All right, um, on what? Okay, the 15th of the quarter. Um, and then I want to be notified. I can specify an email address. And it’s, like, getting very confusing immediately. And I’m like, what is going on here? Like, this is, this is dinosaur software. How is this still being used? And it’s that I, I think universities are a little, a little handcuffed in that probably there are so many people that are demanding of this software that it, it means you’re not getting the really good stuff. Um, that maybe don’t check a few boxes, but man, are really optimized for digital wallets, are optimized for a quick converting, um, gift flow. Um, and I just, I kind of want to throw that out there because I, I don’t know for certain, but having poked around enough and, and investigated the source code and, like, tracked many of these pages back to, like, who are these software companies? Um, that’s the, that’s the sense I’m getting looking from the, the outside. Andreea, are you, are you feeling that? Like, does that resonate with your, your experience?
Andreea Teban
I feel like you were somehow a found a wall in every meeting I’ve had in the last four, five years of my career at Berea. Uh, yeah, I mean, I think that’s so spot on. Um, the, I’ll agree to too many cooks in the kitchen. Uh, I was even reflecting on my form as we were going through it. Uh, Fernando, I want to know, I want you to know that I am currently in the throes of the digital wallets battle. Like, quite literally, uh, where I have to bring to the table, like I said, like, I have to bring to the table my entire finance department, my entire IT department, and I have to, you know, make a very compelling point why we can deviate from this one specific payment gateway, like Bryan was saying, that we are using and we’re confined to. Um, and I was even, like, like I was saying, yeah, I was looking at my donation form and I was thinking, like, well, if it was just me, this field could go and this could go away and this could go away. And it’s exactly what Bryan said. Um, somebody had said, well, this really needs to be there. Like, we really need to have this additional option there that nobody uses, and I can prove that nobody uses. And even something as, you know, easy as, like, Mike was pointing out, our gift designation, which, as being a smaller school, like, right, we don’t have multiple colleges and universities that are doing separate fundraising, so it kind of, um, really simplifies that. But even with those designations, I can, you know, thanks to, uh, the back end of Engaging Networks, I can go and tell them, hey, this is how many people are actually selecting these designations. It’s really not a lot. Like, we really need to have this additional opt-in there that nobody uses, and I can prove that nobody uses. And even something as, you know, easy as, like Mike was pointing out, our gift designation, which, as being a smaller school, like, right, we don’t have multiple colleges and universities that are doing separate fundraising, so it kind of, um, really simplifies that. But even with those designations, I can, you know, thanks to, uh, the back end of Engaging Networks, I can go and tell them, hey, this is how many people are actually selecting these designations. It’s really not a lot. Most people really just want to give, uh, directly towards our annual giving fund or the fully funded scholarships. Most people really just want to give, uh, directly towards our annual giving fund or the fully funded scholarships. And then, um, so yeah, again, we’re talking about these competing priorities, um, having to take into consideration, um, different opinions. And to me, this is a big part of my role at Berea is navigating and kind of living in this tense, um, I don’t know that tense maybe is the good, but just the continuous balancing of folks having a lot of opinions and then us wanting to look towards what are big, major nonprofits doing out there. We want to replicate what they’re doing. And then, um, so yeah, again, we’re talking about these competing priorities, um, having to take into consideration, um, different opinions. And to me, this is a big part of my role at Berea is navigating and kind of living in this tense, um, I don’t know if that tense maybe is the good, but just the continuous balancing of folks having a lot of opinions and then us wanting to look towards what are big, major nonprofits doing out there. We want to replicate what they’re doing. They’re leading the way in this technology and how forms look like, you know, and I always use 4Site donation forms as an example. And I’m like, look how beautiful this is. We can be those people too. Uh, if you guys just wanted to give up on a few more fields. So, yeah.
Fernando Santos
So, when, when, when you’re fighting against, like, uh, uh, or fighting for, uh, a big change, do you, do you, do you feel like you are handling things with data? Or, uh, what I’m asking, it is like, you said you have, uh, a lot of departments. Are they, like, more on the gut feeling? Like, I think we need that field. Or I think we, I think that would be better. Or it’s more like, let’s A/B test. Or let’s see what works and what doesn’t work.
Andreea Teban
I, I would say it’s, for us particularly, um, and again, I don’t know that I can speak for everybody that’s out there in higher ed, but it’s really not. Sometimes. Um, I, I can see how we’re moving more and more towards a data-driven, um, approach to the things that we’re adding in our, uh, digital fundraising tech stack. Um, you know, especially since I’ve been here, I’m, I’m really trying to be very, um, informed and documented of, like, what works, you know, especially with our donation pages. So, uh, and we are going to, like, heavily start A/B testing our donation forms, especially now that year-end is coming, uh, for Giving Tuesday. And, um, I actually even was inspired by Bryan because you guys use Microsoft Clarity. Bryan, because you guys use Microsoft Clarity, so I’m doing now heatmaps in our donation forms, and I can show, you know, folks, like, tangible things that our donors experience when they’re on there. Uh, but I would say it’s more like a gut feeling, and again, this idea that, like, we’re just gonna throw everything in the kitchen sink, and, you know, on, on my end, you know, coming from spaces like the Engaging Networks Community Conference and having built these relationships with our folks, I’m like, So, I’m doing now heat maps in our donation forms and I can show, you know, folks, like, tangible things that our donors experience when they’re on there. Uh, but I would say it’s more like a gut feeling. And again, this idea that, like, we’re just gonna throw everything in the kitchen sink. And, you know, on, on my end, you know, coming from spaces like the Engaging Networks Community Conference and having built these relationships with our folks, I’m like, how easy can we make? We need to make this so easy for the donor, for our alum to be able to just make a gift, you know? But yeah, we are like, you know, you’re talking about the data team that handles all our prospect information. How easy can we make, we need to make this so easy for the donor, for our alum to be able to just make a gift, you know, but yeah, we are like, you know, you’re talking about the data team that handles all our prospect information, and then you’re talking about not just us in annual giving, but then you have planned philanthropy, and you have the philanthropy officers, and you have donors who want a specific endowed fund. That was something that happened last week. They’re like, I really want this specific endowed fund to be on this form, and I’m like, but your endowed fund is not getting donations. So, you know, yeah, it’s just this, this continued back and forth of convincing folks to streamline the efforts that we’re doing.
Mike Bird
Yeah, I, you’re sort of sparking a few ideas there, Andreea, on just like, I can show you all who are here, just a couple of different forum ideas and how, um, some schools are keeping things somewhat streamlined despite the fact that it’s pretty difficult for them to do it. And let me, uh, show you what I mean. So, um, University of Ottawa, big public school here in, in Canada. This page is actually supporting 1,500 or so of their funds while highlighting some key ones they really do want to emphasize. If I want to get in and find a specific fund, Uh, or part of the school, right? Like, let’s say I played on the volleyball team, which of course is comical because I’m five foot five. Maybe I would have been a good libero, but probably not. Um, I can actually find things that I want to give to in a fairly low friction way, or I can just contribute to the funds that they’re highlighting here. So something that is more evergreen, like an annual fund, uh, or a fund that’s directed towards helping students specifically, maybe with bursaries and things like that. Um, again, this is a form that’s processing one-time and monthly giving, but also can get into an employee, uh, giving workflow. It’s a checkout system and has a lot of the same functionality that we looked at on the Berea page in the checkout, um, but also customizing to understand, like, what, what, um, points of data do we really find helpful on our supporters, on our donors? It could be the relationships that they have to the school that we can actually put in place. They’ve put in a nifty little address, uh, lookup. So to confirm that that’s good data going in from the address fields. And then, um, just scrolling past a couple of things here, tributes, anonymous giving, but also looking at how legacy giving, uh, can be teed up through the form experience itself. SFU, also using, so this is Simon Fraser University out in Burnaby near Vancouver, near downtown Vancouver. I grew up also on the West Coast. Um, this, this quad building looks very familiar to me. A fund search, being able to pull from a large, uh, employee pool potentially. And this is just a really, really nice, clean experience. These are large buttons that are going to also be very, uh, touchable on mobile, uh, easy to navigate. And then they’ve called out the, the matching donation piece here in a really clean way. Like, the easiest, one of the easiest ways to get your average gift size up is to have it be doubled by an employer. So just really, really nice, clean interfaces. They are mainly working through a credit card gateway here that doesn’t have, I think, as much mobile wallet support. But that can look really, really different with different gateways. And we’ll get into some of the examples that I’ve teed up from the nonprofit world. But giving you some ideas as to what, even a more sophisticated workflow that, to Andreea’s point, like, you want to streamline as much as you possibly can, knowing that so many priorities are competing on this one page. How do we make things so that people don’t have to complete so many fields? Like we saw on Bryan, the Rochester page. My wife would never complete that.
Bryan Casler
Uh, that’s like just too much. I don’t know that I could complete it.
Mike Bird
Too much decision fatigue.
Bryan Casler
I was struggling to, to like process what the hell I was saying yes to. Um, yeah, I think that’s a, that’s a good point. Um, and actually in chat, Hilary is asking about the inclusion of legacy gift giving. I think this is the balance that you’re trying to strike where often I think, you know, my mind always goes to what is the mental state and how has that visitor been preconditioned in terms of what they’re expecting? So, as an example, if you get an email that says donate to this designated fund and it’s a CTA button, well, that fund should be selected by default and there should be information about what that money is going to go to related to that fund. It’s like, how did that person get there? And you could have your, you know, one page serves everything. So, like, if the example of the legacy giving being like, okay, how did someone come into this page? Is that a high priority, very likely high intent action that they’re going to take? This is something that Microsoft Clarity can also help with. This is something that Microsoft Clarity can, can also help with. Um, but you, you have to be careful with the, the Microsoft, uh, with any type of, like, kidnapping or analytics because let’s say you bury your legacy gift giving. Well, no one’s going to interact with it. So you’re like, oh, that’s not getting any clicks. We don’t need that. But it might actually be that your design isn’t surfacing that option in a way that even though many people are interested in it, they’re not, they’re not going to, um, take action on it. Just as an example, pulling from our, our nonprofit experience, um, one of the things we’ve been doing, uh, where email opt-in to, to marketing channels is really important for nonprofits. Um, on thank you pages, we’ve been, uh, embedding a second opportunity for folks to opt in to, um, opt in to a newsletter. And it’s insane the percent of engagement you get. And you’re like, why would an opt-in on the thank you page be engaged with, even though it’s also on the landing page? And the reason is someone went there to donate. They didn’t go there to, like, read about your opt-ins. That’s a you need that you’re pushing on your, your donor, your supporter, whoever it is. And then after they do their thing, they kind of then get the blinders off and realize, like, oh, there’s other things I could, you know, potentially take action on that are of interest. They just weren’t of interest when I, I landed there because the context was I clicked that donate button in the email. I clicked donate on the ad. And that’s why I landed on, you know, on that page. And so, like, high intent, um, I think it’s really important. If you know there’s going to be high intent, you optimize for it. If not, You might not have the volume baby test. You might have to use your judgment call or find other pages out there as inspiration and, and, you know, uh, be a great artist and steal. Like, take, take that idea and run with it. Like, don’t, I don’t, you know, I don’t, I don’t think there’s probably a lot of people out there that are giving to, you know, multiple universities. I imagine a majority of folks are giving to one university. So it’s not even like you’re, you know, taking out of their, their coffers. Go out there, find inspiration, beg, borrow, steal, whatever you need to do. Um, but a lot of these have probably been solved. So you, you don’t necessarily need to figure this out in a vacuum if you don’t have the, the data to, um, solve it. I think go out and just put your mind in, in, uh, context of a donor rather than a university staff member. When you make that shift, you’re gonna start to see things a little bit differently and figure out how to optimize around it. I know that, Hilary, I know that was a non-answer. Um, so I’m going to open it up to the rest of the team if they have any specifics to speak from that, that might more directly address it.
Mike Bird
Yeah, I’m, I’m short on that data. I think it’s a really good thing to test. Like, could, could your legacy checkboxes be checked off more if they were lower, higher, like right in a particular area off of another field that might tie into legacy? Could you conditionalize it? Um, right. If you were to input the year that you graduated into the form, maybe you graduated in 1950 and you’re maybe close to making that planned gift. Maybe then put in the field, uh, with the checkbox. So there’s a lot of playful things that you can try. Um, Bryan, you’ve kind of like teed me up here. I feel like to share inspiring things that I see on donation pages that can also solve some real, um, user experience. Challenges. So I just want to walk through that. And if, if folks want to, want me to slow down or, uh, have a question on anything I’m showing, feel free to interrupt me. But, um, I believe this might be a project of, of 4Site, if I’m not mistaken. If I am, I mean, I have seen some amazing.
Bryan Casler
Literally had this page pulled up, Mike. Okay. I was going to talk about some of the stuff we did with them, uh, several years back.
Mike Bird
Take it away, please. This is one of my favorite pages to show because it is, uh, pretty captivating.
Bryan Casler
Well, I was just gonna, I was gonna point out something, um, up at the top, which is they have, they have a menu item, um, other ways to give. And I, I’m mixed on menu items up at the top, um, because I think, again, it’s about that anytime, like, you came here, you’re trying to. You’re trying to donate. Um, and so, originally, they had, it was, like, all the list of options. And I was like, I don’t really want someone to leave. And so, I was like, how can we, like, still provide that in an intuitive way? And it was, instead of menu. It’s not a menu. It’s literally other ways to give. The only thing that show up there are other ways to give. Um, and then the FAQ just literally goes into other ways to give. So, um, one was, uh, that was a different way, just universally, because this is used across all different donation page types, that, like, struck that balance of, like, we’re not distracting from the core focus, um, but we’re also leaving breadcrumbs. And I like, I like breadcrumbs. Um, so if we scroll down, I mean, I have to point out our designer, Tio, had the idea of animating the… The amnesty candle, um, that was not something that, uh, they had previously, and they loved it. They now use it all over the place. Um, but it was fun. Uh, the, the flickering is actually random. So, I think Fernando, I think you were the one who decoded that back in the day. Um, but it was just one of those little nice, um, you know, attention getters that we did for the website.
Fernando Santos
Uh, uh, the, the, the fire was, uh, it was created before AI, so. Uh, if we would create it today, uh, we will definitely make it dance a little more, but, but it’s fun.
Mike Bird
It’s already dancing quite a bit. I’m excited to see the different dances we could program into it. Yeah. It’s, it’s an incredible little piece. Everyone who I show it to for the first time is like, ooh.
Bryan Casler
Yeah, it’s pretty cool.
Fernando Santos
They also, it also gives you like a, a mental, a psychological state that you’re keeping the, the fire on by giving it monthly.
Mike Bird
Yeah. And they even call out a matched gift on the, on the first one too, which is really neat.
Bryan Casler
Yeah, and you’ll notice another thing. I mean, this is just good design, but if you, um, if you think about somebody who might be older, who might be focused on making that gift and not realize maybe a form is defaulted to monthly, you’ll see in many different ways we’re indicating that you’re going to make a recurring gift. Not a big fan of, like, the dark patterns of, like, hiding that information. Um, I mean, nonprofits will always talk about, like, oh, we get complaints, you know, someone didn’t realize we were giving a recurring gift or an annual gift. And it’s like, we don’t have that problem because one, you put it on the donation button labels. You also put it, um, on the, uh, the donation, um, button itself. So we can, uh, keep scrolling, Mike. And, you know, some of the other optimizations here, um, just real clean form fields, um, that get filled out. Um, this is following their, their design pattern. So we kind of have to stick a little bit to the branding. Um, the big imagery was something that they, amnesty, um, just has a lot of imagery to use, and it’s, it’s that human component. Um, but you will notice, this is a small thing. Um, anytime there’s a human figure, we do try to orient them so that their face is, like, pointed in the direction of the form. Um, this is something psychologically that if someone’s looking somewhere, even if you can’t see their face, you can tell that child is looking in that direction. Um, your brain brings your focus to that. So, even an animal, um, the subject of any large imagery, um, should often complement, uh, where you want somebody to, to focus. So, we see there’s kind of less visual interest on the far right-hand side, and, you know, it’s focusing you back towards the form. Um, but they do not have digital wallets, uh, sadly. So, their pages are following a more traditional form flow. For our clients who do have digital wallets, we move that up top because, as an example with Stripe, you don’t need to, if you use Apple Pay, you don’t need to ask for any personal info. So, we could just hide those fields, um, when they select it. Uh, and then down below, you got a little gift summary and the button label changes. Um, again, just making sure. Um, and, and we put the processing fee checkbox there. We’ve played around with it in a lot of places. Again, people get confused about gift amounts and whatnot, but by putting it next to a thing where you see the toggle, um, is, uh, a way to, like, guarantee that someone understands the relationship between a choice being made and its impact. So there’s different ways to do that, um, but this is a pretty safe one if you put all of this together in, like, a nice little, um, summary kind of near the bottom of it. Uh, and then, you know, we just got some social proof with, uh, the different badges at the bottom. And then finally, if you go to the full footer, I think you’ve just got some, you know, privacy links and, and whatnot.
Mike Bird
Yeah. I appreciate the deep dive on this one, Bryan. Yeah, it’s, it’s a fun one to show. And there is a lot. You’ve called out things I didn’t, I didn’t even necessarily notice at first, but now I can’t unsee, which is really great. Um, I’ll go quickly through, like, a couple of other areas, uh, of inspiration that I see on forms. So, actually having, um, and now we’re, we’re going, like, really into the world of, of very, sometimes quite loud, bold brands that are bold for a reason, um, because they’re high advocacy causes. Uh, Food and Water Watch, Food and Water Action have a totally different style and feel to the form. This doesn’t really feel like any of the other forms, especially those, like, more traditional higher ed forms. They’ve coded into that so that their mobile wallets, um, which they actually process on their other page, um, but here with PayPal, at least has been called out a little bit uniquely. Uh, and again, I appreciate what you said, Bryan, the, the explicit mention that this is a monthly donation, for example. And if I were to cover a fee that they’ve set on their back end, that that is also included in the final amount. Um, even simple things that I, I’m often just seeing kind of be missing is a call out to go to monthly giving and then enter a form field where, uh, suddenly I’m, I’m, I’m kind of lost on the form. This arrow right here is getting me into the gift frequency that they want me to be in. And then they’ve got a checkout that is a little bit more streamlined, which you can also set up. So you could have, uh, we have seen the five tab, uh, checkout flow that you, uh, mentioned earlier, Bryan, but generally we’ll see folks test sometimes two, three, four steps versus the one long form. And sometimes it’s really audience specific. You may not, um, one style may not actually always convert better with all supporters. Um, or certain gift frequencies may actually be better suited for, um, multi-step versus single flow pages. One style may not actually always convert better with all supporters, um, or certain gift frequencies may actually be better suited for, um, multi-step versus single flow pages. Just a couple more things I wanted to call out that I love about this page from Human Rights Watch is that they have a geo-tag set up in their form. Um, they know that I have an English setting on my browser, but they also know that I’m in Canada, and they can direct me to the French version of this page if I prefer to work on a French interface, which is pretty neat. Um, this has been defaulted into one-time. Just a couple more things I wanted to call out that I love about this page from Human Rights Watch is that they have a geo-tag set up in their form. Um, they know that I have an English setting on my browser, but they also know that I’m in Canada and they can direct me to the French version of this page if I prefer to work on a French interface, which is pretty neat. Um, this has been defaulted into one time. They could have defaulted this into monthly, which I think is what I’m seeing with American Kidney Fund. They could have defaulted this into monthly, which I think is what I’m seeing with American Kidney Fund. Excuse me. When I loaded their page from their website, that’s defaulted into a monthly setting. And what’s really cool about this from a friction reduction perspective, um, knowing that—I didn’t test this on mobile—but knowing that most recurring giving is happening on a credit card, they’ve actually limited the payment options to just hone in on the credit card versus the one-time gifts, which present more options, including a DAP pay option. Um, I’m actually curious if anyone, like, has any major thoughts on that. It’s, it’s an interesting thing that maybe they’re testing, but does anyone have Opinions on that?
Fernando Santos
About the multi-step, uh, personally, uh, I’m always concerned about browser autofill. And, uh, when you add some organizations, they will put, like, first name, last name, email on one section and address in the other. You, you break autofill when you do that. Uh, so that’s actually adding, uh, asking your user for more clicks and extra, extra tapping on the keyboard. Um, and I’m always, uh, trying to take them out, like making them, uh, like if, if you, if you Google about it, like, uh, even, uh, uh, the iPhone, they removed the home button. It’s just, it was not because, uh, they wanted to, uh, to make it prettier. It’s because when, when you are tapping, um, a tap, a scroll event comes first than a tapping event, part of the technical perspective. So you get the, the device becomes more addictive if it has less buttons. People will scroll, uh, you scroll to, uh, unlock the phone, you scroll to mostly, uh, to, to use the phone, right? So every time that you make your user click less and tap less on mobile, you will increase conversions.
Bryan Casler
Yeah, I’ll just, I’ll second that, that, um, the, there was a time when multi-step really won. I think the de facto is back to single step. And that is browser autofill is really good. Um, a lot of integrated systems with email and fundraising can pre-populate fields, um, where, for example, when we do that, we hide all the fields and just say, welcome back, Fernando. And all you have to do is, you know, select your, your gift amount and payment preference. Um, the, the, the challenge is the, when you got a, you got complex gift designation. You got legacy funds. You got in memoriam giving. You got whatever it might be. It’s like, where does that all live? And how can you, um, again, prioritize the, the user experience? Otherwise, it’s just going to look like, like your junk drawer when you pull it out. And that’s how you end up with those. Those forms that look like you’re actually applying to, um, enroll in school again and not, not make a, you know, a generous contribution. Um, I did just want to touch on one other thing. We have, um, a little over 15 minutes left and folks are welcome to jump in chat or come on video, um, if you’re brave enough. Um, but no, um, no hard feelings if not. You can also just come on voice if you can figure out, um, how to do that. But the, uh, one thing I wanted to point out though about. Post donation optimization is that a lot of folks, um, don’t, don’t think about it from an experiential standpoint. They think about it from a transactional standpoint. So most donation thank you pages show what? A summary of the donation you just made. Hey, thanks, Fernando, for your one-time gift of $20, $25. Here’s some tax info for you. What if that’s the biggest gift you’ve ever given? What if that’s the first gift and you plan to do more? Um, that’s kind of a, kind of a letdown. So I just wanted to throw out that, cause most of these tools let you customize what that thank you page experience is at much lower risk if you aren’t a technophile, um, or have an agency or developer that can help you. But think about it being a celebration and like, it can be positive messaging. It can be positive imagery, but, um, I think it needs to be something that. It leaves such a good taste in that donor’s mouth that they’re subconsciously going to want to do it again. And we know, um, all these, uh, studies show that, uh, if something ends poorly, like if you took a 20-day trip to Europe and you feel like you’re going to die, uh, in the, the landing due to turbulence, probably that your whole trip to Europe is going to be, um, superseded by that feeling because it happened at the end. And like, what feeling are you ending with? So it wasn’t the action. It wasn’t the conversion that was the end. It was that post conversion moment. It’s the email, the follow-up. Um, and I mean, I think you, you know, you need to strike a balance of not just like, you know, pouring sugar on it. Post-conversion moment. It’s the email, the follow-up. Um, and I mean, I think you, you know, you need to strike a balance of not just like, you know, pouring sugar on it, but can you do something better than thank you for your generous donation text receipt? Um, what could you do that, again, inspires someone maybe in a subconscious way to come back and want to do this again? So that, I just wanted to throw that out there because I think that’s a low-hanging fruit that almost no matter the software you’re using, you probably have some string you can pull in terms of the customization for what that looks like.
Fernando Santos
Um, can, uh, Hilary asked a question on the chat and I would like to append my question to her question and at the same time practice my English pronunciation because I need to improve. Uh, so she said, uh, here at McGill, McGill, we have been looking, um, at a lot of customer-related purchase experiences. Have you guys looked beyond higher ad for ideas that would integrate well into the higher ad field? So, into that, um, before, uh, when I was doing research about the higher ad specifics, I found, uh, some stats, uh, from 2025 where they said, uh, 81%, it was a, um, analysis from 500 plus institutions. And they said, like, 81% of all the contributions were designated for specific uses. And that makes me think that people, they identify to programs as much as they identify to the institution as a whole. So, one thing that they do a lot on customer-related purchase experience, it is to bring what you like to the whole post-purchase process. For example, if Amazon knows you just bought, like, cat food, Amazon knows you have a cat, you are going to get stuff about cats on the newsletter. So if we, if the stats are showing that, uh, gift designation is so important for, for the supporter, uh, how is the communication, uh, or the lifetime of the supporter after the giving? Uh, are the institutions sending information related to the program that they are attached to, or just the general, uh, or they don’t separate, uh, the communication when, when they handle that?
Mike Bird
That’s a really great callout. Um, and that is something that we do see certainly in the nonprofit sector where an organization that’s a little larger might have multiple programs. If, like, let’s say it’s animal welfare and I’m supporting, uh, dog sheltering, adoption, fostering, et cetera, versus cats versus rabbits. Like, the page itself could have an image that, let’s say it had the rabbit on it and I convert on that page, my follow-up emails or communications might come. And that is something that we do see certainly in the nonprofit sector where an organization that’s a little larger might have multiple programs. If, like, let’s say it’s animal welfare and I’m supporting dog sheltering, adoption, fostering, et cetera, versus cats versus rabbits. Like, the page itself could have an image that, let’s say it had the rabbit on it and I convert on that page, my follow-up emails or communications might come and be rooted around that rabbit image or the stories of how rabbits come to be sheltered or adopted and things like that. And be rooted around that rabbit image or the stories of how rabbits come to be sheltered or adopted and things like that. So, um, there’s like a whole world, I feel like, of things that people could be trying, right? The page where if you are inserting the year that you graduated in or you already have that coming in through the CRM, uh, to the digital platform, maybe that is feeding, uh, imagery in, in emails that is relevant. So, um, there’s like a whole world, I feel like, of things that people could be trying, right? The page where if you are inserting the year that you graduated in or you already have that coming in through the CRM to the digital platform, maybe that is feeding imagery in emails that is relevant. If I’m someone who is in my 70s, for example, I’m seeing images of my peers who might also be in that same age range, or I might be seeing people who may look like my grandchildren. And obviously there’s a massive world of variation there, but like things that you can definitely try out and test. I’m also just catching the rest of Hilary’s thread here. Come to mind, Hilary’s been looking around at, um, outside of the nonprofit world, a few ideas that come to mind for inspiration. Um, form drop-off emails, yeah. Abandonment is what we think of that as. Could be, could be a pop-up, could be an email, could be like a little widget that comes up on the bottom of the screen. Those are things that we’re now getting a lot of traction on. We’re seeing clients actually just letting their abandonment emails fundraise for them, which is pretty cool. Um, Displaying gift as items. Oh, Bryan, I think there’s a really great example of what this can look like from a foresight perspective that you might want to throw out. I’m thinking of PETA here.
Bryan Casler
I’m gonna have to put Fernando on the spot with that one. All right. I’m the main developer working on the PETA shopping cart. So I’ll give you a second to maybe pull up a page, Fernando. But the PETA shopping cart came out of programs that they run throughout the year based on helping dogs in need. So specifically around winter and summer when dogs will be potentially kept outside in extreme heat or cold, we wanted to create a more experiential donation page that allowed individuals to add different symbolic gifts to their shopping cart. What’s really cool about this is they did a ton of testing and the numbers are crazy on this. And then. We did a new baseline and we had, we had so many ideas. They would come back and be like, “All right, let’s try this next one.” We would do that and it would almost certainly test better. And then we’d put that in, new baseline, and we just kept building and building for a few years now. What’s really neat because of the flexibility Engaging Networks gives us is we implemented it in a way that gives them full control. And sorry, sad, sad dog warning, gives them full control on the back end to control the colors, control the presentation. And things do get better once you hit that plus sign. Fernando, if you want to take over and just give a quick tour.
Fernando Santos
Yeah, uh, going back to, uh, like, nobody will wake up in the morning saying, “Hey, I’m going to save a dog today.” You need to harvest that, that, that feeling. And that’s why you, you communicate with your supporters a lot. So, uh, when you touch people’s heart, uh, with technology, you end up increasing, uh, the conversions as well. So, we had an idea. After deploying this project, we, uh, we gave Peter an idea to be like, what if when you hit the plus button, and to add something to your virtual cart, uh, what if we switch the image from a sad dog to a happy dog? And they, and, and Peter, as, uh, they used to A/B test everything, and they found out that this simple two-hour change, uh, increased the conversions by two digits. Uh, so people will be like, “I will never take this dog out of my cart. I’m going to finish this.” Uh, because he’s happy. The dog is happy now. So, uh, this is like one example, but this whole experience we, we made, uh, completely integrated with, uh, Engaging Networks Space Builder, and we also provided to Peter, uh, a lot of different, uh, themes so they could easily do, like, this is a winter. You are helping dog, uh, a dog this winter, but in the summer, you’ll have a different, uh, program, you’ll have a different campaign, uh, using the same technology, and they, they want to use, uh, different colors, so we also added that. So, in the end, it’s like a package that you are creating, and we have a bunch of social, uh, social proof, uh, technique, uh, techniques, uh, like here, you can see other people are giving, um, And choose the payment type. So, uh, you see that, uh, we mentioned that we want to remove friction as much as we can. And because that’s like, that’s good practice. Uh, so here, uh, you only, uh, give the necessary information, which is two fields. If you want to pay with Apple Pay, but if you want to pay with a credit card, you will give more information. So, just, uh, asking the user for the information on the right place at the right time also, um, it is also like a good strategy to improve, uh, conversions.
Bryan Casler
Yeah, this one’s, um, maybe we can flip them all to happy dogs, Fernando. Uh, we, we loved working on this again. Um, it was an idea that we had, and then we, we saw the numbers and just kept getting to go back and revisit it and refine it, and it’s still continuing. This is over two years later, and I think it’s about every three to six months we come back and we get to do something on it. Um, but the, I mean, you can, you can think about different ways this could be applied. So yes, this is dogs, happy, sad, but you can, you can just start to extrapolate to what you’re doing, um, at the university about the, So yes, this is dogs, happy, sad, but you can, you can just start to extrapolate to what you’re doing, um, at the university about the, the way that this can inspire different UI, UX patterns, um, in your, your own thought process. And the cool thing with this is that it, it’s very simple. The way that this can inspire different UI/UX patterns, um, in your, your own thought process. And the cool thing with this is that it, it’s very simple from, like, how things are actually functioning, right? When you’re doing that, you’re just adding numbers to a shopping cart. And so it’s really just a donation page where we’re populating a hidden amount, um, with that final gift. And everything else is the user experience that’s layered on top of it. And that is, that is facilitated, I will say, highly by, um, PETA having a symbolic giving program. Some organizations do not. Some organizations don’t feel comfortable doing it. So, I know one size does not fit all, but you can imagine, um, different ways to, to utilize this kind of pattern and interaction. And it is definitely one of the ones that is unique in that sometimes adding more friction. So, hey, this takes more time than just selecting, you know, very tiny cards and kind of pick one and that’s it. This adds a little bit more friction in that you’re giving the user choices, which we talked about earlier, maybe not being a good idea, but they tested into it and they know their supporters and this, um, and this just, uh, was like game busters. So they have been finding different ways to, to bring this to other programs and campaigns without diluting it in the eyes of the supporters. So you can’t do it for everything, but you can selectively, um, bring it out to, to help high, drive high conversions on very specific campaigns. We’re getting close to, to time here. Um, uh, and it looks like we still got a handful of, um, folks on the call who may or may not want to jump in chat or, or come on video. Um, but, uh, if we don’t have any of that, we can kind of wrap up. Um, Heming, uh, as our omnipotent, um, uh, Zoom moderator, is there anything I’m missing, um, or that we should be promoting? I know that we’re trying to get this, uh, webinar series going regularly. If folks wanted to stay in the loop, uh, to be sure they can participate in the next one, what’s the best way for them to do that?
Heming Nelson
Uh, yeah, if you’re here, uh, we’ve got your email address and you’ll be invited to the next one. Um, one thing we’re kind of curious about is this, uh, this format. We just did a regular Zoom meeting instead of a Zoom webinar. I’m hoping that we get folks on camera and, um, encourage a little bit more interaction. I think we were mildly successful. People still seem to prefer the, you know, the chat. Um, so, if anybody has any thoughts about that, let us know. But we’re going to do the next one, uh, on December 4th. Um, and, uh, you’ll, you’ll be hearing from us.
Bryan Casler
Awesome. And I know we have a recording of this. And so, everyone who joined, you’re going to get that. So, that’ll get sent out. I’m just really appreciative of, um, the, the panelists who were able to, uh, be a part of this conversation. And special shout out to Ryan being on camera the whole time. And hanging out with us before, before it started and letting us pick his brain about, um, all the different decor, uh, there in the background. Ryan, thank you. Really appreciate it. And thank you for everyone else who, who contributed. Um, be sure to, if you want to, uh, reach out to Mike, be sure to grab his email in chat. Uh, and, uh, Heming, I will let you wrap it up here.
Heming Nelson
Yeah, well, I think, um, I think we’re good. We’ll let people go. Uh, we’ve had your attention for an hour. Thanks for joining us. And, um, we’ll, we’ll send. Mike, you want to add anything? No, this is great.
Mike Bird
Always a great, great conversation and excited to potentially continue with a bunch of folks. So, yeah, have a great upcoming weekend, everyone.
Bryan Casler
Andreea, Fernando, thank you so much.
Andreea Teban
Thank you all. This was great.
Heming Nelson
Appreciate it.
Mike Bird
Bye for now.
